Kenneth Copeland Ministries - Voting to Preserve Our Nation’s Economy, Education and Future. Did you know the Bible is an economics book and it was a textbook in our schools for 320 years? In this episode of Faith for Our Nation—Vote Special, George Pearsons, Michele Bachmann, David Barton and Keith Butler discuss how we can vote to preserve our nation’s economy, education and future. Watch this episode of Believer’s Voice of Victory!To watch the additional content, click here or go to: kcm.org/votingspecialTo download Pastor George Pearsons' notes "Where Do You Stand – The Political Platforms".
KEITH MOORE: So the school board is probably, aside from the church, the most important issue there is for the family and for your vote. GEORGE: Hello. This is George Pearsons. Welcome to the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcast, "Faith For Our Nation." And we are talking about preparing for the midterm elections, also voting in these primary elections and how important it is and the issues that we're looking at. I have with me here this week Bishop Keith Butler. Welcome, Bishop Butler.
Full Dialogue of Voting to Preserve Our Nation’s Economy, Education and Future
KEITH: Thank you for having me. GEORGE: We're so glad you're here. Congresswoman Michele Bachmann MICHELE: Thank you. GEORGE: we are we are thrilled that you are able to come, with your schedule MICHELE: Me, too. GEORGE: and the things you are doing. Welcome. And, David Barton, we so appreciate what you bring to the table. We are thankful for you and for your ministry, your outreach. And all of you, for being here with us so that we can be able to communicate to our partners and to our constituency how important it is that we vote. MICHELE: Absolutely. GEORGE: It's extremely important. With these primary elections that are coming up, we need to be the ones that are going to the polls that so often the elections that are ignored are the most important elections. Is that correct? DAVID: Yeah, and it really is. And in so many ways. Let me just give an example. We talked on the first day about how few people vote. But that's for the more glamorous seats like president and governor and senator and rep. If you get out if you remember, Fort Worth, Texas, started something a few years ago that was really bad. They were the first school district to say, "Hey, let's all use one bathroom. Let's all have one locker room. We don't believe genders." A few weeks later, President Obama essentially took what Fort Worth did and came out and said, "You know what? If you get federal funding, you're going to have one locker room and one bathroom, and we don't do genders." And so, across the country, people started saying, "No, that's not right."
GEORGE: Yeah. DAVID: And by the way, just to be really clear, that's not right. The Bible says, for locations, God says, "And he made them male and female" MICHELE: Male and female. DAVID: period, end of story. In nature, I'm a cowboy. We worked 1,200 had not long ago, had 580 calves, and we worked all 580 calves, and nobody had any trouble telling which was male and which was female. It was real easy. Nature makes it really apparent. And now there are 92 legal gender identities you can choose. Facebook alone has 71. On your profile on Facebook, you can have 71 gender identities. GEORGE: 71?
MICHELE: That's called fiction, not fact. That's what that is. DAVID: So KEITH: Romans 1 MICHELE: Amen. KEITH: "Having become wise " DAVID: That's right. KEITH: " they became fools." MICHELE: Amen. DAVID: That's exactly it. And that's what it is because it's ridiculous. And so there were people who said, "You're not doing that in my school district." And so, for example, there was a town of 40,000 individuals, and there was a Christian lady in that town who said, "I'm running for school board. We're not going to do this in my school." And she ran and she got elected. A town of 40,000 individuals, she got elected MICHELE: How many votes?
DAVID: with a total of 35 votes cast in the whole election. 35 votes cast in the whole election, she wins the race with 35 total votes. There was another guy who also said, "Oh, not in my school district." And he ran. He was a farmer, and it turned out, on election day, he got busy and did not go vote for himself. And don't jump to conclusions, because it's not that he lost by one vote. Nobody voted in the entire election. Had he voted for himself, he would have been the entire school board. Nobody voted in that election. And so when you get to a local election, you're looking usually at a 2-to-4-percent turnout and sometimes less than that. And what happens is, when you choose school board officials, they often become city council people, they become mayors, they become state reps, they that's building a farm team. And you ought to really pay attention to those local elections, get the right. And all the stuff we've been talking about this week GEORGE: Yes, yes. DAVID: man, I you know, I get people coming to me for whatever reason. They think if I endorse, it'll help them. So get a dog catcher come and say, "Will you endorse me for dog catcher?" I go, "Okay, what's your stand on abortion?" "Abortion? We don't do that with dogs." "I know, but you may not stay a dog catcher. You might run for governor. And I'd rather knock you off as a dog catcher than have to fight you as a governor." (Laughter) And so what all the stuff we're talking about right now, this week, you want to apply it at every level GEORGE: Yes, yeah.
DAVID: even for school board. "Well, school board doesn't do anything to this role." "That doesn't matter. I want to know your philosophy because you might not stay on school board. You might be my mayor someday." GEORGE: That's right. MICHELE: David's right about that. The other thing is these local offices can actually impact people's lives personally even more than the presidential office because in your backyard it may be your local county guy who decides if a casino GEORGE: Yeah. MICHELE: is going to get built in your backyard GEORGE: Sure. MICHELE: or if there's going to be some other maybe like a liquor store or maybe like a pornography shop, they're going to make that decision. GEORGE: Right. MICHELE: So the guy who's running for board of soil and water may have more to say about your land than GEORGE: That's true. That's so true. MICHELE: anybody else. And David is 1,000 percent right. These local races are everything. And that's why I wish every church would take this on as a project and designate somebody in their church to go through and, you know, not tell you who to vote for, but tell you where people stand, to have a shortcut method. GEORGE: Yes. MICHELE: People I think do want to do the right thing, George.
GEORGE: Yep. MICHELE: I think they want to vote for godly people, but they just don't take the time. They don't know where to start. GEORGE: Exactly. MICHELE: But there's a lot of people who do go out. And David, what's the name of that website where people DAVID: Christianvoterguide.com. MICHELE: Christianvoterguide.com. And that's something I think if everybody would remember that, christianvoterguide.com, it's a place where you can go and issue sets will allowed. And it's easy. And that's a part of we need to know who we're voting for, not just go in there and throw our hands up. But we need to know who this is with these positions because if you can have somebody not get elected to school board because zero people voted when David says only two to four percent, that means out of 100 people, only two people to four people voted. Well, think, believers could own every single office GEORGE: That's right. That's right.
MICHELE: if we could just get up off of our GEORGE: Yeah. KEITH: That's where I was going with that. (Laughter) MICHELE: No. Thank you, because I didn't know where I was going to go. So thank you. KEITH: That believers would come and actually vote because particularly at these levels, and it's about your kids. MICHELE: Amen, brother. GEORGE: Mm-hmm. KEITH: Okay, I mean, you think about school board what school boards and I once served in a city council, but I had an issue between when I'd run for the school board or city council. And, at the time, I'd been sitting around for council. DAVID: And that was Detroit.
KEITH: That was in Detroit. DAVID: And Detroit is there a million people in Detroit? KEITH: At the time, it was over a million people in Detroit, yeah. DAVID: And so how many of us cast in the election, 20,000, 15,000? KEITH: I don't even remember exactly what how many votes it were. DAVID: It's going to be tiny compared to a million. KEITH: It was it was because it was a off year. It was 1989. MICHELE: And that's what this year is, a, quote, "off year." KEITH: It was a off-year election there. MICHELE: Yeah. KEITH: Okay. So percentage-wise, it was fairly small. But what I was about to say was that the school board had a had a lot to say about what wound up being the curriculum of the issues like you're talking about that happened. That influenced the minds of the kids that determined whether or not the kids believed in the Bible, believed something else, and turned out to be you see as a pastor, I see it in church all the time. "I brought my kids to church, you know, once a week, you know, on Sunday morning." How many hours did the school have with your child? GEORGE: Yeah. MICHELE: That's right. KEITH: 30 hours a week that they've got to indoctrinate your child, and then you come and complain that church is two hours long? GEORGE: Yeah. (Laughs)
KEITH: Okay, one time a week, and, "Well, I did what the Bible said." No, you didn't do what the Bible said. GEORGE: Yeah. KEITH: Okay. The Bible said you're in Deuteronomy, it said, "You get up in the morning, you read the Word of God. You go to bed with them, okay, you read them the Word of God. You can walk through the day with them. You read the Word of God and you make sure," because whatever seed you plant, you can harvest DAVID: That's right. KEITH: you make sure what they're hearing and where they're going. And you can't always have people don't always have the money to pay for private schools. But then, if that's the case, you've got to make sure who's elected to school board is somebody that has biblical values and understanding. MICHELE: Well, amen, because if you look at this last presidential election, and if you look on one political party, 65 percent of the young people voted for Bernie Sanders. Where did Bernie Sanders as a candidate come down? He calls himself a socialist. GEORGE: Yeah. MICHELE: That's what he calls himself. Well, what is a socialist? That's somebody who believes that government should make the decisions that the founders thought we should all be making. And so if you have the government making my monetary decisions, well, my labor all my labor is, when I go to work, it gets translated into money from my employer. And so if the government is making the decision about the money that I get from my job, and I'm not, then that means I don't have control anymore over it, over my money.
And it's two-thirds of the young people in America voted for someone who calls themselves a socialist, who thinks government should make all these decisions and control my money? Something really different happened because that's not what the Bible says. DAVID: Well, and let's MICHELE: And the Bible's not socialism. DAVID: Let's go a step further because, in that election, 65 percent there voted for Bernie in the first primary. But, nationally, it was a margin of 75 to 17 that they supported Bernie over other candidates. So 75 percent. Now, as of two weeks ago, a poll came out that showed college students today prefer socialism, communism, or fascism to free-market economics. They choose three over that one, and it's because we know nothing about it. We teach only 3 percent of universities require any course in economics for graduation, so we no longer get it taught. We don't get it taught at high school. Only two states out of 50 require any testing on it. MICHELE: And yet the Bible is an almost an economics textbook. DAVID: It is. KEITH: Absolutely, yeah. MICHELE: It's filled with, "How do you deal with spending? How do you deal with taxes?" KEITH: Yeah.
MICHELE: "How do you deal with being a steward with all that it is that God gives you?" KEITH: Right. GEORGE: So how do you vote? How do you vote? DAVID: Well, the Bible I mean, the Bible specifically says, "An estate tax is wrong" MICHELE: Amen. DAVID: dead out. There's numerous verses from Proverbs 13 all the way through MICHELE: An estate tax is what you might have heard being called a death tax DAVID: A death tax. MICHELE: so that when you die, you've paid taxes all your life on your money and then the state wants to come in and essentially put its hand into the coffin KEITH: And take it from your children. MICHELE: and say, "You're going to " take it from your children. DAVID: Up to 55 percent. And, by the way, that was that MICHELE: 55 percent, that's more than half of everything you have. DAVID: And that's particularly what was we had such a good upturn in minority businesses, small businesses KEITH: Yeah. DAVID: and they went out of business because when the parents died and tried to give it to the kids, the government wanted 55 percent of it just because you had the audacity to die. MICHELE: You can't keep going. DAVID: But people say, "Well " MICHELE: That's right. And farmers, too. Farmers are losing their farms. DAVID: Farmers their farms KEITH: Yeah.
MICHELE: And then the government I'm a tax lawyer. And then they came in what was called the unlimited marital deduction so you could at least transfer your farm or your business back and forth between the husband and wife. But then, when it went down to the kids, you didn't have that deduction KEITH: Yeah. MICHELE: and you'd lose your shoe store KEITH: All of this is MICHELE: and you'd lose your gas station. KEITH: Yeah. And all of this is because the all the school systems moved away from the Bible DAVID: That's right. MICHELE: Mm-hmm. KEITH: as the book in the standard. So it goes back again to, even at the school board level, they've got to be a very strong DAVID: That's right. KEITH: believer who is Word-taught. Even the dog catcher everybody's got to be about this. And this starts with, the churches have to go back away from entertainment. MICHELE: Amen. Preach it! Preach it! KEITH: And they have to go back to teaching MICHELE: We're for you. KEITH: the Word line upon line upon line. MICHELE: Amen. KEITH: If you don't teach the people line upon line upon line, they will not know what the Scripture says. GEORGE: Yeah. KEITH: And I don't know how many places I go and preach, and the people don't know the very basics of the Bible anymore. MICHELE: So many people think that, "Okay, well, maybe I'm with you, that it isn't political to preach from the pulpit about marriage or about pro-life, but certainly not on taxes, certainly not on spending, certainly not on economics." And yet so much of the Bible, that's what it's about. GEORGE: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. MICHELE: It's about how we handle the resources DAVID: It is. MICHELE: that God gives us. DAVID: And to give you an example, if I started throwing at Christians, "What does the Bible say about the capital gains tax?" "It doesn't say nothing." Yeah, it does.
MICHELE: Oh, yes. DAVID: Luke 19, Matthew 25, you're supposed to not tax the profit makers. The if you make profit, you reward profit makers. You don't tax them. Well, the state tax we've already mentioned the state tax. You can choose things like what we call a capitation tax or progressive income tax. The Bible clearly comes down against progressive taxes. It stands for capitation taxes. So the Bible is really clear on what we would call the capital gains tax, because the capital gains tax says, "Oh, you've made too much profit. We're gonna take some away from you, and give it to everybody else." No, no, no. The Bible does not support what we call the capital gains tax. In the same way, the Bible does not support what we call the estate or the death tax. The Bible says the government is not to take away the land from the people or from the heirs of the people. And so with the estate tax, because I have the audacity to die, the government says, "Well, we get to keep 55% of what you made, and you can't pass it on to your kids." Well, Proverbs 13:22 says, "A wise man leaves an inheritance to his children's children." I'm supposed to be able to pass down what I own for at least two generations. But now the government comes in and says, "No, you died, so we'll keep 55% of it." And then when my kids die, they'll keep 55% of that. So all I can do is pass down 27% to my children's children. That's not what God intends, that's not what He wants.
This right here, what I've got right here, this came out in 1776. This is called, "The Wealth of Nations," done by Adam Smith. Adam Smith, economists today say he's the father of modern economics. Well, kinda. But America had a free-market economics system 100 years before this came out. So we already beat this, but granted, he's the guy who kind of popularized it. But what's significant that they never cover in college is, is these two books right here. Now, these came out in 1776, "The Wealth of Nations." This came out in 1758. It's "The Theory of Moral Settlements." If you don't have a moral biblical foundation, your economy's not going to work right. MICHELE: Mm-hmm, that's right. DAVID: And so they like to look at the economic side and not the moral side.
MICHELE: Amen. GEORGE: Yeah, yeah. DAVID: And if you take a free you see, I to be pretty gross here, let me be pretty gross for a minute. We assume morality on the part of business owners. If I go into a restaurant and order a bowl of spaghetti, I am counting on the waiter not having spit in my spaghetti when he was in back. Now, I wouldn't know if he did or not, but morality says you don't do that. GEORGE: Yeah. DAVID: So there's got to be a standard right and wrong for businesses to work right, because if you don't have that moral standard and where do you get the moral standards? Not from our own determinations, from biblical teachings. So if I go in to take my car to get an oil change, I'm assuming that the guy actually changed the oil. Now, he could have just taken the valve off, put it back on, and billed me for it. MICHELE: Yeah, yeah. DAVID: We assume. And see, that's the thing, economics doesn't work without morality. Oh, guess what? Wall Street's not working real good right now. We have taught there is no morality. We remove morality MICHELE: Well, yeah, that whole concept of just weights and measures my husband and I were just at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C. GEORGE: Oh, yeah.
MICHELE: And they showed from ancient times the weights. So the scripture that talks about just weights and measure DAVID: Weights and measures. GEORGE: Mm-hmm. MICHELE: and they had them from DAVID: That's a business reference. MICHELE: That's a business reference, you're right. And from the little tiny weights all the way up to the big ones GEORGE: Yeah. MICHELE: the idea of a pan-balanced scale GEORGE: Yep. MICHELE: the things need to be right. And that really is reflective, again, of the heart of God and who God is. GEORGE: That's right. MICHELE: Because God is just. And so, therefore, He wants us to have just relations with each other. How can you have a society when you're thieving from each other? And I've had occasion as a member of Congress to literally travel all over the world. And the one unifying aspect around the world is corruption. You see corruption in government after government.
GEORGE: Yeah, yeah. MICHELE: And the more failed the government, the more they're attached to corruption. The more you have a biblical standard in that government DAVID: The less. MICHELE: the less you have corruption. That's not saying the U.S. is perfect or Israel is perfect, but they try to adhere to a biblical line. And that's why I think it's so important for pastors and I know, Bishop, you feel this way for pastors to continue to preach biblically. We have 52 Sundays, you have an opportunity 52 Sundays to preach biblical. KEITH: You've got to teach. MICHELE: Then when election time comes around KEITH: You've got to teach.
GEORGE: Yeah. MICHELE: You've got to teach, that's right. KEITH: Not preach. DAVID: Yeah. KEITH: See, the purpose of preaching to Christians who are already born again is just to inspire them to what they have already been taught. But if you have not taught them, the only thing you do is get emotion. MICHELE: Amen. KEITH: You have to teach them line by line what it says on these things. GEORGE: Yeah. KEITH: Now, I know I have done that. And when you do that, people people then choose sides. "Oh, well, you're teaching the doctrine of this party or that party." No. DAVID: No. I'm line by line MICHELE: You've been accused by that? You've been accused of that. KEITH: Well, I've never been accused by that. But what you're doing is you're teaching what it says. I didn't write the Bible. MICHELE: Mm-hmm. KEITH: Okay. None of us wrote the Bible. It says what it says about just measures. It says what it says in Romans 13 about taxes. It says, "Owe no man nothing but to love him." I mean, it talks about the role of government and what it does. The Bible covers every aspect of life, why there are poor, how you get out of poverty. DAVID: That's right. KEITH: It talks about all of the economic stuff. The answers are already here. Now, what's happened is that the again, our educational institutions, which I think, other than the Church, is the most important thing there is. MICHELE: Mm-hmm. KEITH: The educational institutions have moved away from this. This used to be the MICHELE: Our standard. KEITH: 180 years, I think it was, right, historian? MICHELE: Yes.
KEITH: You know, 180 years, the Bible was the textbook, I think, right? MICHELE: Yeah, yeah. DAVID: Actually, you might got to make 320 years KEITH: Okay, right. DAVID: because from the time the first public school law passed in America, 1647, was to make sure students read the Bible. And it was 1962, the court said, "No more Bible reading in school." KEITH: Oh, okay. DAVID: So 320 years. MICHELE: That's the first time I saw you on television. I saw you talking about you had the charts that show that when we moved away from having the Bible in schools and prayer in schools KEITH: That's where I was going. MICHELE: that's when we saw the United States go down. So when you said 300-how many years? DAVID: 320. MICHELE: Okay, 320 years of the Bible being the standard in our schools, you're talking about from 1962. It's now 2018. Think of how quickly we fall apart DAVID: You have. MICHELE: when the Bible isn't our standard.
DAVID: Three educational generations that have now gone through without the Bible. And going back to what you said, why schools are so important, Jesus, in Luke 6:40, said, "Every student when he's fully taught will be like his teacher." So you've got a bunch of secular progressives in school. They're teaching all the wrong stuff, and we can't figure out why our kids are acting the way they are. MICHELE: Amen, amen. KEITH: And it goes back to school board elections and for the whole purpose of this broadcast. Who's running for school board? What do they believe? You talk to those people. School boards, you're talking about if they're not your own children, how about your grandchildren, how about your I'm sure you've got nieces, nephews. Every one of those DAVID: Sure. But I definitely got the guy who's going to be ruling my life coming in that school because they're going to be my MICHELE: I'm so glad you are saying this, because very few people have figured out the centrality of the Department of Education. And when you think, "That's our kids, and they're learning. Their heads are being entrusted to the Department of Education and what they teach." And if people understood that the United States was always local control, that parents influence the local school boards, and that's how we were able to keep biblical standards, and it wasn't until when President Jimmy Carter came in in 1978, that's when or '76, that's when we first established a Federal Department of Education. If you look at one of David Barton's famous charts, you would see education practically taking a straight downward spiral since the federal government has gotten involved. One of the best things we could do is shut down the Federal Department of Education, push it back to the local communities so that parents could insist on DAVID: That's right. MICHELE: Biblical values coming back into our schools.
KEITH: See, if you're a minority parent, a vast majority of minority parents cannot send their children to a Christian school. DAVID: That's right. That's right. KEITH: It costs too much. DAVID: That's right. KEITH: Very few minority churches have a Christian school, period, because they can't afford to do it. DAVID: It's expensive.
KEITH: It's extremely expensive education to do it. I ran one for 20 years. And so that means they are left to the public system. MICHELE: Amen. KEITH: This is why you have what's happening in the cities. MICHELE: More than 90 percent of all kids are in public schools. KEITH: Yeah, but in minority communities like 99 percent DAVID: It's yeah, it's high. KEITH: 99-point-whatever, okay? So the school board is probably, aside from the church, the most important issue there is for the family and for your vote. That's DAVID: And let me go on record right now with that because, right now in America, you can teach the Bible in public schools for credit, the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools. You can have what are called good news clubs even led by teachers that do evangelism in public schools. There is so much a school board member can do that is legal, that is constitutional, that the courts will oppose, but you've got to get people in there who are willing to get God back in the classroom. KEITH: What when DAVID: We just had a law passed in Arkansas that every classroom in Arkansas gets to put, "In God we trust," very prominently, 32,000 classrooms in Arkansas. That's local school folks that can do that.
MICHELE: That's hope. That's inspiration. That's hope. GEORGE: One minute left. You were going to finish your sentence. What were you about to say? KEITH: No, I was just talking about the fact that that your seed is going to come back to you. Your seedtime and harvest is going to come back to you and your kids and your grandkids and your nieces and nephews. It's going to be your vote on the school board. MICHELE: Hallelujah. GEORGE: Father, in the name of Jesus, we come together and we stand in agreement where this issue is concerned. MICHELE: Yes, Father. GEORGE: We are getting revelation of how important it is to vote, even in these primary elections, even in the midterm elections. It has everything to do with our children and their future. Lord, we will not drop the ball. In Jesus' name, amen. MICHELE: Amen. GEORGE: Amen. MICHELE: Amen. GEORGE: Amen. I'll be right back with you. Stay with us.
MICHELE: The balance of power in government is this: It's a genius idea from our founders. And what it says is this: We can't trust any one person with power, because, remember, what was the experience of the founders? They had a tyrannical king. And they saw how dangerous it was to concentrate all power in one individual.
And so they divided power because they understood human nature. They understood that man tends to be evil, that we're born in original sin, and we're because we're born in sin, we have to be tamped down from our evil ways. So what the founders decided is there would be power for federal issues at the federal level; there would be state power, state government officials; and local officials. So they divided power vertically between federal, state, and local. Then they divided power horizontally, meaning, at the federal level, there is a president, there is a Congress, and there is a judiciary. The president makes the executive decisions, but he doesn't make the laws. He enforces and carries out the laws. The law makers are the Congress. That's the House and the Senate. So even though there's a Congress, their power is divided between the Senate, which was meant to uphold and look after state interests, and the House, which was meant to look after local, smaller issues in a local district. Then there was the judiciary. The the Congress makes laws, and then those laws are applied in the court system.
So law so power was divided both from federal, local, and state, and then also from the federal from the federal government president to the Congress to the judiciary. And the same happens at the local level, too. When all of these areas work in their correct balance, in other words, when judges don't act like lawmakers, they act like judges, when lawmakers act like lawmakers and not the President of the United States, and when the president acts with just enforcing the laws on the books rather than trying to act like he is the Supreme Court, or she is the Supreme Court, then our government maintains its proper balance, and it's finely tuned.